Sabeen & Adil interviewed by Naveen

TIECON

An Interview by Naveen Naqvi

An older tape I rediscovered …

Kaifi Azmi

From the background of an old play

(Ragoñ Mayñ Dao∂nay Phirnay Kay Ham Naheeñ Qaaél)

which used my recitation of his lovely short nazm.

Listen here!

The Killing of Sabeen Mahmud (Salman Hameed)

24th April 2015

This is an incredibly sad day. Sabeen Mahmud, the director of an incredibly amazing place of culture and science, T2F, was shot dead today. I know that Sabeen Mahmud was behind all sorts of cultural activities in Karachi. I would just add that she was a phenomenal supporter of science as well. I first met her in the early 1992, when she helped us in organizing International Space Year Activities. She was still a teenager at the time. But more recently, our urdu astronomy series Science ka Adda came out of conversations with her and Zakir Thaver (her organisation PeaceNiche is listed as one of the sponsors of the videos). She was an astronomy enthusiast and got tremendous pleasure in knowing about the enormous scale of the universe. I'm sure the universe misses her enthusiasm and her lively indomitable spirit. I'm still gathering my thoughts - and will have more to say later. In the mean time here is a short clip where you can hear Sabeen talking about T2F and on fear in Karachi.

Since she was killed right after hosting a panel on Baluchistan, there is a justified speculation about the role of ISI in silencing her. Here is a short piece that looks at her killing and state terrorism:
Many liberals on social media have condemned the attack and placed the blame on state agencies. This was responded by others who protested that these are unfair accusations being cast with complete lack of evidence. While it is too soon to know for certain who was behind Sabeen’s murder, this cowardly act is the perfect time to talk about the role of state terrorism.

One of the most common responses to accusations against ISI responsibility is why would ISI kill Sabeen Mahmud when they could have killed Mama Qadeer? The answer to this is obvious: Killing Mama Qadeer would make a martyr for Baloch separatists. Killing Sabeen Mahmud sends a message to the rest of us not to ask questions about Balochistan. And why not? Why should we not ask questions?

The answer lies in the very subject of the talk that got Sabeen killed. Human rights organisations across the world have reported on kidnapping, torture, and murder of Baloch by Pakistan armed forces and intelligence agencies. Our own Supreme Court has been forced to threaten contempt proceedings against the government for failing to comply with orders on missing persons. When agencies think it will be good to kill Mama Qadeer, they will kill Mama Qadeer.

But I want to leave you with two things. One (that you saw above) was a post about T2F from 2 years ago that linked to an NPR story about this coffee shop. And two, a Bruce Springsteen song because Sabeen absolutely loved Springsteen! She lived a full life and enjoyed every second of it. I'm glad to have had the chance to meet with her on several occasions. Here is the post from January 2013:
I have been lucky to have given three talks at one of the coolest cafes in Pakistan: The Second Floor (T2F). I have always found the atmosphere electric and a very high level of questions and discussions.

One of the persons behind T2F is Zaheer Kidvai - and I have known him since 1989-90. He helped and guided us in organizing AMASTROPAK - our nascent amateur astronomical society in Karachi. In fact, he provided us with some space in his office as well.

So it is an absolute pleasure to know that in the midst of all the negative news from Pakistan, NPR discovered T2F. Here is the story: Pakistani Cafe is Oasis in Desert of Civil Discourse. Congrats to Sabeen Mahmud, who is the backbone of T2F.

A little over a year ago, Sabeen went to a Bruce Springsteen concert and she wrote this on her Facebook page:

Apologies for all the hyperbole that shall follow but there is no way to describe a live Bruce Springsteen experience without excessive verbal indulgence. Bruce is a powerhouse of raw, unbridled energy. At 64, he has the tightest, sexiest ass I’ve ever seen and a lean, hungry body that brings to life the notion of strapping your hands 'cross his engines. He burst onto the stage at 7:15 pm and did not stop leaping, bounding, running, and being all kinds of awesome, until 10:30 pm. 3 hours and 15 minutes. Non-stop. Who does that anymore? In a world of synthesised, over-produced, stage-managed shit, a Bruce Springsteen concert is pure, unadulterated, old-fashioned (but not cheesy) rock and roll at its wondrous, glorious best. The way he enunciated that he is "a prisoner of the everlasting eternal ass-kicking power of rock and roll” … oh god, my heart stopped for a nanosecond. He makes every single moment count. Every single moment is special.
...
I was reminded starkly, of what really matters and what’s important. My politics were reinforced. I made leaps of faith in my head all over again. Bruce Springsteen’s music has defined my life - my hopes, dreams, aspirations and struggles. To be in the same space as him was nothing short of magical.

This just gives a small glimpse of the liveliness of Sabeen. Since she explicitly mentioned Springsteen's Hungry Heart at one point in her post, I will post a live version here. Here is Boss for you Sabeen.

ILF - On Sabeen's Assassination

This was the Live Program that took place in Islamabad

the day after Sabeen was killed.

You can see it by clicking her name above.

•

With due apologies I'd like to ensure two things must be changed

since they were mentioned in the program.

•

Ameena Saiyid is an old friend.

Her elder brother and I were classmates in School.

Her husband and I were classmates in College.

She mentions me, along with Sabeen,

as the people who contacted her for T2F.

While 'The Second Floor' was the actual 2nd Floor of my office,

the concept of T2F was entirely Sabeen's.

I did go to Ameena with Sabeen - but I was not the

person who thought of this amazing place.

It was all Sabeen's idea.

Its just that Sabeen had been working with me for years

that many friends thought I had now conceived this, too.

•

The second issue is a more important one:

Asif Farrukhi mentioned that he had met Sabeen 10 days ago

and she had told him that she had received a letter with a bullet in it.

Framji Minwalla repeated that, too.

Sadly, this never happened!!!

I asked Asif the same night after confirming from

Ameena and the writer at Dawn who wrote about it.

(The newspaper also had a Photoshopped picture

that a few people thought was real!)

Asif couldn't recall this, at all.

Later he came to my house and said he was very confused.

There was a friend of his who told hm about another friend

and he mixed it up and added Sabeen's name that day.

Grief plays strange tricks and memories muddle.

Sadly, with story being in Dawn, it carried a lot of weight

and 'The New York Times' and others also published it.

I was asked by an 'investigator' to give him

the bullet and the letter.

I suggested that they contact 'Dawn'.

We, at T2F, who worked very hard with Sabeen,

in every way, knew that this was wrong.

I was her 'mentor', too.

If it had happened, Sabeen would have brought the bullet

and the paper and asked us to put a flower in it

and have it in the centre of our office table!

That would have been the Sabeen we knew.

IT LOW - Jehan Ara Interviews Sabeen Mahmud

I am confused …

Going through the old/new newspaper/magazine reports on Sabeen's assassination I come across so many strange things. How can people lie with a straight face?

Where was that bullet with a note that has been mentioned everywhere in the press? It never happened. If it had, knowing Sabeen as many of us did, we think it would have been in T2F's Meeting Room, with a flower in it — for that's how she would have reacted.

When did Sabeen decide to close down T2F and go fighting for the Baluchistan's oppressed people? She didn't say that to me in all my years of knowing her. She spent hours with me the day she was killed. Where did you get this 'friend' who reported it to you, NYT?

How did Sabeen say that her house was so far from her office, Mama Qadeer? Did you make it up as the interviewer was asking you questions. She lived max 5 minutes away from T2F!

Why did you 'kill' her, Saad? Was it because she was against Abdul Aziz? You said that that once … and then you said you killed her because she was against Qur'an? You then said you killed her because she was anti-Pakistan and was bringing American ideology here? Really? Did you know that she decided to stay here after talking to Dr Eqbal Ahmad years ago: He convinced her about the need to stay in Pakistan instead of going out for a job? Her company (actually our company) put up a website where people could see where they could contribute to places where goods could be carried to the victims, when the Earthquake happened. Her going to APS to help the children and survivors was another place that showed her human side. And she was against Pakistan? You finally said she was anti-Burqa. Wow! Did you know that the first exhibition she held when T2F started was graphic designs by a burqa-clad girl - covered from head to toe - who remained a friend of ours over the years. You claimed to have done a lot, including the 'bomb' that you threw at Beaconhouse (your old school, but a different branch). Hahaha. There never was a bomb. A little pataakha on the road that left a tiny dent when a piece hit the outside wall. No one injured or killed! So what's the deal?

…

And then there was Babu's assassination. Another event that we saw.

But why was he killed?

You can read the numerous crazy newspaper quotes here.

…

Are all these crazy reports unbelievable?

Not really … given what we have become.

An 8-9 Year Old Interview

Looking back to see what I thought 8-9 years ago.

Nothing has changed 

(other than the list of blogs that I now read, for some have left and one is sadly no more.)

_____________________________________

Interview with Blogger Zaheer Alam Kidvai

Posted by: The Pakistani Spectator // Style and Life // Blogger Interview // October 21, 2007

Could you tell us what made you decide to blog?
Glad you didn’t ask “Who”.

What do you think sets your blog apart from other blogs?
Just that it’s hosted on another webpage. Each person’s blog is different. Some find mine interestingly diverse. Others have posted derogatory comments to say it’s absolute trash. Who am I to judge?

If you could choose one characteristic you have that brought you success, what would it be?
I am not sure if the definition of success is universally the same. But, for me, it was the immediate understanding of and total acceptance of Buckminster Fuller’s dictum: You have to decide early, whether you want to make money or you want to make sense.

What were the happiest and the gloomiest moments of your life?
Happiest: Running away to sea!
Gloomiest: The response would upset many here, and, as this misra’ says:Ham ahlé dil haeñ, hamaaray mazhab mayñ dil dukhaana ravaa ñaheeñ hae!

If you could pick a travel destination, anywhere in the world, with no worries about how it’spaid for – what would your top 3 choices be?
I’d love to revisit :
Costa Rica
Cuba
London

What is your favorite book and why?
No one book is possible for me to single out, though the 2nd edition of the OED comes close.
But some did change my way of thinking or have a larger than usual impact. Among them,
off-hand:
Paine’s The Rights of Man
Russell’s Why I am Not a Christian
Sherman’s The Rape of The A.P.E.
Hoffman’s Steal This Book
Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse
FiveHeller’s Catch-22
Greer’s Female Eunuch
Abbot’s Flatland

Then, there’s Shakespeare’s Complete Works,
Ghalib’s Deevaan,
and Carrol’s Alice in Wonderland
– three books that I open at random, again and again. Unbelievably rich!

What’s the first thing you notice about a person (whether you know them or not)?Whatever s/he ‘projects’. I would be lying if I said that the first thing I noticed about Marilyn Monroe was the (very real) gentleness of her soul.

Do you think Pakistani politicians could benefit from the social networks and things like Twitter?I am not entirely sure what Twitter does, but given that most of our politicians are Twits, I suppose they could.

How can Pakistani bloggers benefit from blogs financially?
Your question reminds me of Iftikhar Arif’s shayr:

Koee jünooñ, koee sauda nah sar mayñ rakkhaa jaae
Bas ayk rizq ka manzar nazar mayñ rakhaa jaae

But if someone does want to gain financial benefits, there’s nothing wrong with it per se. However, like most commecially viable products, blogs needs to deliver! The Baghdad Blogger is an example. As a secondary earning source, of course, one could populate the blog with ads, if they can live with the awful design that results from this. The more serious ones or respectable ones could charge for subscriptions. If Ardeshir Cowasjee blogged (independent of the stuff that goes into the conventional Dawn column), his following may be happy to pay a reasonable amount. Finally, if a blogger feels that selections from her/his writings have the potential s/he could put them together as an anthology and sell them. As e-Books, first, perhaps.

Do you think Pakistani bloggers tend to remain somewhat self-centered and really don’t go out of their shells? Is it the oriental style of blogging, or they are still unsure about it?Pakistani or Oriental (what geographical limits, I have always wanted to understand, does this label cover) bloggers, like their counterparts from other parts of the world, will, by and large, reflect their culture and society in their writing styles, contents, and issues. Blogs are, frequently, merely personal jottings, aimed at close friends and families. Other blogs are more universal in their scope: a Science blog from Pakistan will be not much different from one from Kansas, I guess. 😉

Is it true that who has a successful blog has an awful lot of time on their hands?
You mean time on their hands from other more meaningful things? As if blogs are not meaningful? So those who write novels or make passionate self-financed documentaries to bring about changes, or write poetry, do so because they have time on their hands? What an awfully patronising and degrading question!

What are your thoughts on corporate blogs and what do you think the biggest advantages and disadvantages are?
There are, in the long term, only advantages: If the corporation and its clientele are in touch, the products and services will improve, fill real needs, and also (if done honestly) have the consumer understand the constraints under which corporations operate: Laws that need to change. Taxes that need revision. In the short term corporations may view feedback and criticism as a disadvantage. But that’s only until they adopt mechanisms to understand the reasons for the negativity (flawed products, poor service, misunderstood aims) and respond honestly.
However, there is ample justification, today, to consider Corporate Honesty an oxymoron.

Does it pain you or make you feel proud that we have made history by electing a uniform general as our president?
Why do you think we call them General Elections?

Do you think this whole emphasis on blogs and whatever online is a significant indicator to show that the web, the social web, is becoming a very important social force?
Globally, yes. But there are pockets – large pockets – where, for numerous reasons, many economic or geo-political, this is not yet a relevant question. We need to find ways to change this, though.

What do you think where the Pakistani blogosphere is right now?
Is there a Pakistani Internet (apart from a sign in Lahore that I saw for ‘Pakistan Wide Internet’)? So, there either IS a blogosphere or there isn’t. Pakistani bloggers are bloggers are bloggers. Some are Pakisanis by birth and live abroad and write about issues that affect them in their current surroundings. Others are expats with one mental foot in Pakistan. Some are in Pakistan but their blogs live in the same bubble where they do. Others are non-Pakistanis living here who write about Pakistan, objectively and subjectively. So what’s this Pakistani Blogosphere meant to include in it’s complete isolation (which is what a sphere is, na) … ?
If there is such a thing then, like Pakistan itself, it is trying to carve a separate identity in a world where ‘group identities’ have proved to be nothing but sources of misery and strife.

Who are your top five favourite bloggers in Pakisan?
In alphabetical order:
Ayesha Saeed
Jehan Ara
Omer Alvie
Sabahat Zakariya
Sabeen Mahmud

BTW, why 5? Is it inspired by religious symbolism? (You know: 5 Pillars, 5 Prayers, Panjtan Pak, Ahlé Baet …)

Have you ever become stunned by the uniqueness of any blogger in Pakistani blogosphere?Oh, yes. More than one. But naming them would make me sound like a member of the Mutual Admiration Society. So, I pass.

What is the future of blogging in Pakistan?
I think it’s great. But it will really flourish if we can – more easily than we can, now! – blog in our regional and national languages. While people say that there aren’t enough affordable computers, bring out the facilitation software apps in these languages, add the under $100 computer, provide it to schools (in exchange for non-existent teachers), set up community centres with these in Government schools … and – not all – but many, many more will be computerate. And many will blog. The thrill of communicating with people in a different mindspace is addictive.

In political respect, can we call blogging a ‘democracy of message’?
Why? What’s poor Blogging done to be treated with such contempt?

Can Pakistani blogosphere play any notable role in the forthcoming elections, if they happen at all?Too many variables: Many bloggers are not registered voters. Many are too young to vote. Many won’t step out on Election Day, fearing violence. We ought to add eVotes through a secure application and insist that they be counted. Yes, I know they won’t be. Not this year. Not the next. But soon people will begin to think about them. And, one day … Voila.

Will the elections happen?
Haven’t they, already?
Reminds me of the joke that was popular when a certain party was eliminating not just it’s avowed enemies but also dissenters within its ranks. A foreign dignitary supposedly called upon the Sindh CM to offer condolences on the death in a car accident of one his party’s MPAs. The CM looked at his desk calendar and said,” Oh, that’s tomorrow!”

You have also got a blogging life, how has it directly affected both your personal and professional life?
In my personal life I have found blogging to be a great rejuvenating medium because it provides a space where the majority of my e-friends are a lot younger. I get to learn so much more from them than I would from other dinos. Contrary to popular belief, you can teach an old dog new tricks.
Professionally, it has a direct bearing, I am sure. But I’ll need to first understand what my ‘profession’ is. I wrote “Unzipping minds” in the Profession column for my passport application, but they did not accept that.

What are your future plans?
I am 67… hoping to be 25 next year. (I often get asked, as a taunt, what I want to be when I grow up. My straight-faced and honest answer, always, is: A child!

Any Message you want to give to the readers of The Pakistani Spectator?
Engage! Express yourself without fear! Allow others to do the same! Develop this forum into a thought-provoking medium. There’s enough space elsewhere on the ‘Net for LOLs and ROTFLs and other necessary emotional outbursts.